Our Lil 5'8 PG Rocks @ Kevin Martin Has The Poops

[Eze]

Courtney Lee out for Houston, Marcus Thornton still out for Sacramento.

[ctbaz]

hopefully isiah starts

[Eze]

Jimmer's starting. Also Kings added Alex English to the coaching staff.

[EvansCousinsDUO]

I think cousins will have another great game, with salmons surprisingly not shooting as bad as he normally does.

[IowaSacKing93]

Here we go..

[IowaSacKing93]

Nevermind, starting lineups.

[IowaSacKing93]

Calvin Murphy is doing commentary for Houston.

Jimmer, Evans, Hickson, Cousins, and Salmons out there to start.

[Eze]

Jimmer needs a seat on the bench every time he jumps in the air and gets caught. Maybe he'll figure it out.

[IowaSacKing93]

Martin open for 3. I smell a big HOU run coming

[Sir Harry]

Jimmer needs a seat on the bench every time he jumps in the air and gets caught. Maybe he'll figure it out.

we're gonna need more seats

[IowaSacKing93]

Kings look pretty dysfunctional on defense.

[IowaSacKing93]

Lowry blows by Jimmer. I just don't like the feel of this game so far. It's like 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

[IowaSacKing93]

Dalembert makes it look easy. Damn. 12-22.

[IowaSacKing93]

Tyreke hits the open 3. 2-point game.

[Eze]

Nice comeback

[IowaSacKing93]

On the road, down early, we could've had this one slip away early.

Good closeout to the quarter. Kings lead by 2!

[Sir Harry]

How can Tyreke look so dominate one game and so retarded the next?

[IowaSacKing93]

Kings killing it in transition. Houston missing everything

[Eze]

I heart Isaiah.

[Sir Harry]

Smart has got them running well.....Westphal never stressed that

[Eze]

How can Tyreke look so dominate one game and so retarded the next?

lol, seriously. If he did this every night he'd be a freaking superstar.

[IowaSacKing93]

Donte from distance!!

[Eze]

Kings are such a better team right now with Thomas on the floor over Fredette. And when Salmons is off. lol

[IowaSacKing93]

Speaking of Salmons...his ESPN pictures looks just a tad bit creepy.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/1726/john-salmons

[IowaSacKing93]

Just for once I'd like to see Salmons not give up on the drive and settle for the bad jumper

[Eze]

LOL @ that pic of Salmons. Awesome.

[nuraman00]

72-81 entering 4th.

[nuraman00]

Hickson with a spinning turnaround from 18 feet at the top of the key. BRICK.

[nuraman00]

These announcers keep referring to Isaiah Thomas' dad "taught him well". Do they know the story on Thomas' name? Or is it a running gag?

[nuraman00]

I like how they refer to Budinger as "Bud".

[nuraman00]

Thompson tips in an Evans miss.

[nuraman00]

78-87, 7:26 left.

[nuraman00]

Dalembert banks in a shot. "19 points for the Ber". (almost sounds like "bear").

[IowaSacKing93]

These announcers keep referring to Isaiah Thomas' dad "taught him well". Do they know the story on Thomas' name? Or is it a running gag?

Houston announcers were having some fun with him earlier

[IowaSacKing93]

What a shitty gametherad.

[nuraman00]

The defense has been ok this quarter. Just bad offense.

[nuraman00]

What a shitty gametherad.

Who can explain these things. Oh well.

[nuraman00]

We had a 207 post thread on NYE.

[nuraman00]

"Kyle Lowry from the parking lot! He was waay behind the 3-point line. "

"Kyle Lowry to the rescue!"

[Eze]

John Salmons gets worse by the day, which is saying something.

[bloatedmaniac]

So what did we learn tonight? John Salmons sucks
What has Keith Smart not learned yet? That John Salmons sucks

[bloatedmaniac]

The starting lineup needs to be: Thomas, Thornton, Tyreke, Hickson, Cousins. JT, Cisco, Greene with a bit of Jimmer as the main backup rotation until Hayes comes back. Outlaw can continue to watch games until he learns to play basketball. Salmons can do his KT impression.

[cbkesq]

"Kyle Lowry from the parking lot! He was waay behind the 3-point line. "

"Kyle Lowry to the rescue!"

Another PG Petrie could have drafted instead of Crappy Douby. Amazing that he could have had Rondo or Lowry and he picks Douby. What an epic failure.

I really thought the Kings competed defensively tonight. Unfortunately, offensively they are so bad they can't stay in games. They are presently last in the league in assists, assist/TO ratio (both of those they are last by a mile), and last in terms of giving up assists to the opponent. They are close to last in 3 pt FG% and overall FG%. When you have no one who can consistently make outside shots and no PG to get teammates open shots, you can't win no matter how good your defense is.

And weirdly they are second to last in Opp FG% but second or third best in Opp 3 pt FG%.

Finally, I just hate John Salmons and I think I hate Petrie for bringing him back. I know I'm beating a dead horse but it just really defies logic. IMO there honestly could not have been a worse fit for this team in the entire league than bringing him back (even if it got Beno out of town).

As negative as I seem to be all the time, I do think they are competing harder and it's good to see Greene get more PT.

[nuraman00]

Another PG Petrie could have drafted instead of Crappy Douby. Amazing that he could have had Rondo or Lowry and he picks Douby. What an epic failure.

I really thought the Kings competed defensively tonight. Unfortunately, offensively they are so bad they can't stay in games. They are presently last in the league in assists, assist/TO ratio (both of those they are last by a mile), and last in terms of giving up assists to the opponent. They are close to last in 3 pt FG% and overall FG%. When you have no one who can consistently make outside shots and no PG to get teammates open shots, you can't win no matter how good your defense is.

And weirdly they are second to last in Opp FG% but second or third best in Opp 3 pt FG%.

Finally, I just hate John Salmons and I think I hate Petrie for bringing him back. I know I'm beating a dead horse but it just really defies logic. IMO there honestly could not have been a worse fit for this team in the entire league than bringing him back (even if it got Beno out of town).

As negative as I seem to be all the time, I do think they are competing harder and it's good to see Greene get more PT.

I don't think they're competing harder. THey just competed harder today.

The defense in the Toronto game was nonexistent for 47 minutes.

I don't think you're being negative. I predicted the lowest win total in the predictions game. And I've predicted the lowest 2 of the previous 3 years too.

This team is just unpolished. They don't have a good system. They don't have a good coach. All of their players turn it over (and were known to do so at their previous stops too). Take take 26 foot jumpers.

They just need a lot more.

[nuraman00]

The starting lineup needs to be: Thomas, Thornton, Tyreke, Hickson, Cousins. JT, Cisco, Greene with a bit of Jimmer as the main backup rotation until Hayes comes back. Outlaw can continue to watch games until he learns to play basketball. Salmons can do his KT impression.

While I think Thomas is the best PG this season, it's still going to be an adventure with him too, even if he were starting. I don't think this team would really win any more games, they would just look better losing.

I just think its problematic whether you only start Evans, or both Evans and Thomas. Thomas still doesn't have the feel for running an NBA offense (but he does show promise).

For the most part, Evans has played well this week, nice to see. I'm glad I saw defense from him today, but I don't know if it will last.

[titaneek1]

Big game by Dalembert....sticking it to the Kings. ouch!

[cbkesq]

I don't think they're competing harder. THey just competed harder today.

The defense in the Toronto game was nonexistent for 47 minutes.

I don't think you're being negative. I predicted the lowest win total in the predictions game. And I've predicted the lowest 2 of the previous 3 years too.

This team is just unpolished. They don't have a good system. They don't have a good coach. All of their players turn it over (and were known to do so at their previous stops too). Take take 26 foot jumpers.

They just need a lot more.

What is the system offensively? None of the bigs know how to set a pick. All of the bigs on the bench should have been watching Scola set effective picks all night long. And none of the guards know how to use the pick. Either the big does not set the pick long enough or the guard uses the pick ineffectively by either using it too early or not brushing off the picksetter so that his man runs into the pick.

The other problem with our pick and roll is that teams do not fear just sliding under the pick and daring us to make perimeter shots. Jerry and Grant continuously talk about the bad spacing on offense, but it's because the entire defense sags towards the middle knowing the only person playing right now that could be a consistent threat to make a perimeter shot is Jimmer (and right now he has no confidence in his shot whatsoever). The lack of perimeter shooting also prevents effective dribble penetration because everyone sags back.

[bloatedmaniac]

While I think Thomas is the best PG this season, it's still going to be an adventure with him too, even if he were starting. I don't think this team would really win any more games, they would just look better losing.

I just think its problematic whether you only start Evans, or both Evans and Thomas. Thomas still doesn't have the feel for running an NBA offense (but he does show promise).

For the most part, Evans has played well this week, nice to see. I'm glad I saw defense from him today, but I don't know if it will last.

Yep, this team will still suck and make mistakes. Its just the best lineup we have to use.

[DCKingsFan]

Another PG Petrie could have drafted instead of Crappy Douby. Amazing that he could have had Rondo or Lowry and he picks Douby. What an epic failure.

Don't get me started...

[cbkesq]

Don't get me started...

I know. I really need to stop rehashing old failures by Petrie, but it boggles my mind as to why we keep firing coaches when Petrie is the one who put this dysfunctional group together. It's time for him to be shown the door. From 2005-2008, his 1st round draft picks were poor (two lottery picks included), and his draft day trade to bring back Salmons (????) was universally ridiculed. And that 4 year deal for Outlaw is sure looking good. This guy has lost his touch. He can't and shouldn't still be getting credit for good moves made 10 years+ ago.

[Eze]

Petrie made a lot of risky moves back in the day that paid off.

J-Will was a bit of a loose cannon. Webber was even more-so, but in a different way (not to mention trading off Richmond, your franchise mega-star for him). Peja didn't come over for a few years. BJax was really sub-par in Minny and Denver. A LOT went his way - and a lot of it was very risky. Then again, I think you need risky GM's to be good but he took a lot of pretty big chances that almost all turned out well.

[nuraman00]

I know. I really need to stop rehashing old failures by Petrie, but it boggles my mind as to why we keep firing coaches when Petrie is the one who put this dysfunctional group together. It's time for him to be shown the door. From 2005-2008, his 1st round draft picks were poor (two lottery picks included), and his draft day trade to bring back Salmons (????) was universally ridiculed. And that 4 year deal for Outlaw is sure looking good. This guy has lost his touch. He can't and shouldn't still be getting credit for good moves made 10 years+ ago.

You'd consider Garcia, Hawes, and Thompson very poor?

IMO, the goal for a GM should be (based on draft pick):

Top 3: All-Star caliber player.
First Round: Starting caliber
2nd Round: NBA Roster worthy. (no Patrick Ewing Jr. type picks, where every analyst is saying he would be lucky to even make anyone's training camp.)

With that said, if you look at any draft 7 years later, 1/2 of all lottery picks are out of the league, or non-factors.

2005: David Lee, Brandon Bass, C.J. Miles, Monta Ellis, Lou Williams, Amir Johnson, and Marcin Gortat are the only relevant players picked after Garcia. I also think Garcia is pretty good, in a 5th starter type way, he just can't say healthy, which is something you can't predict. And I didn't hear too much clamoring for any of those players picked afterward. Ellis would have been nice. Gortat was too much of a project at that point. Lee is a lot better than anyone could have predicted.

2007: Thaddeus Young, Rodney Stuckey, Wilson Chandler, Rudy Fernandez, Aaron Brooks, Carl Landry, Josh McRoberts, Glen Davis, Marc Gasol, Dominic McGuire, Ramon Sessions are the relevant players after Hawes. Gasol is the only good surefire starter. Sessions is someone I feel can be a good PG, but someone needs to give him the starting job for a year, and let him develop and see how good he can become. Maybe he has it in him, maybe not. But he's always been someone's backup the last few years, while putting up good numbers as an injury replacement when the respective starter has gone down.

People were high on Aaron Brooks, and he ended up looking good for about 1.5 years from mid-2008 to the end of the 2009-2010 season. Then he got injured last year, was never the same, and is now in China.

2008: I'll keep this shorter since we're still not sure if some of the players after Thompson can be starters. Too early. But you have a lot of fringe players like DeAndre Jordan, Ryan Anderson, and Mario Chalmers, who could start for some teams, but aren't good enough to be those 35 mpg starters.

This draft has only seven heavy-minutes starters: Rose, Mayo, Westbrook, Love, Gallinari, Gordon, Brook Lopez. And other than being able to shoot a little, Gallinari doesn't doesn't do enough to warrant playing 35mpg. All of these players were picked before Thompson too. Yes, I left out Beasley, because he just jacks up shots inefficiently. He'd be a good 25mpg player off the bench, that's about it.

The draft is not that great of a place to build entirely through. That's why you have to sign FAs or make trades for more proven players. As I mentioned, only a quarter of a draft ends up having a 7 year career or more, and out of those 15, only a handful are even starting caliber players. About 65-75% of each draft has players that never do anything in the league, for various reasons.

Modern era Detroit only had Prince and Okur as players they drafted. Billups, Hamilton, Ben Wallace, and Rasheed Wallace were through trades.

Most elite teams fill out some of their starting lineup through trades.

That's why I was disappointed the Kings didn't sign any 2nd tier players this offseason. Because they were available, unlike what will happen next year. It's hard enough just to get a 2nd tier player in the draft.

If you look at the Kings when they were good, only Stojakovic and Turkoglu were draft picks. The rest were through trades or FA.

Yes it's good to get 1-3 players in your main rotation from the draft, but the odds of getting 4-5 guys are slim. Some of those guys just won't end up being as good as they need to be.

Garcia, Hawes, and Thompson are good enough to be in the league and part of a rotation for at least 7 years, so in that sense, they passed one test. But there weren't too many players it seems that were surefire starters in the 1st round, picked afterward.

As for Salmons, I thought while his fit might be questionable, he would at least be able to show his midrange game and shoot around 45%. He hasn't done that. Garcia hasn't done anything to supplant him though either. Evans moving to the SF is he only way to remove Salmons, and I doubt Smart will do that.

Having Udrih or having Salmons, it's a lose-lose. You can't draft Fredette and Thomas and still have Udrih on your roster. You also can't play Salmons in the starting lineup when he's playing like this. Becuase right now, it's not so much a question of his fit, but his ability to make a shot. He's cut his FGAs down to 8.8 a game, which is fine, but he's not making them. You really can't have an offensive player take less than 8.8, otherwise he's even more useless.

Was there a better team to dump Udrih to? Maybe. But most teams seems to be set to an extent with their PG. You've had a lot of younger PGs in the league the last few years, and teams aren't going let Udrih get in the way. The only trade I think makes sense is Udrih for Mike Miller, but that would have been as problematic as the Salmons trade, plus Miller is hurt. Other veteran teams like the Celtics or Mavs or Bulls or Thunder don't need a PG. Memphis can't commit to Udrih either, too longterm. They're having trouble keeping Mayo, who is better, as it is.

The bigger mistake was giving Udrih a 5 year deal. I didn't want him back in the first place, and if he was to be back, only 3 years. I wasn't impressed with his play in 2007-2008, he didn't have "starting PG" written on him.

Petrie has made a ton of mistakes. But I think there's only 6 good GMs in the league, most GMs are terrible and have hurt their teams. Odds are replacing Petrie would lead to average moves by another G.M. Just because you replace someone, it doesn't mean there's actually a good candidate out there, I'm not impressed with most of them.

If Jerry West was into being a fulltime GM, then sure. But there's probably a reason why he picked to be a consultant instead of a GM at this point in his life.

I feel the same way about ownership, to an extent. Changing things doesn't guarantee that someone will actually make things better. If the Nets don't get Dwight Howard to team up with Deron Williams, then Jay-Z and Prohorov have done nothing to improve the Nets. The new Warriors owners haven't gotten results either, although so far I like Mark Jackson. I think it's a bit of a fantasy that a new GM or new owership group would come in and actually make the right moves. They'd probably make mistakes too, just different ones.

Philly has changed ownership, but unless they get to the conference finals, I don't see much either. Making the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs is "nothing". I mean, it's good and makes for a good season. But a lot of teams have those types of seasons too.

* Every team has made the playoffs since 2003-2004.


* Every team has won one series since 2003-2004, except for Toronto (2001), Charlotte (never), Philadelphia (2003), New York (2000), Milwaukee (2001), and Portland (2000). So 24/30 teams have gotten to the 2nd round in the last 8 years.


* 15/30 teams have gotten to the Conference Finals in that span.





I do think good organizations start at the top, but given what else is probably out there, the best the Kings can do is get better coaches and players. That much is doable. (I've listed the more desirable FAs and coaches in other threads.)



Petrie made a lot of risky moves back in the day that paid off.

J-Will was a bit of a loose cannon. Webber was even more-so, but in a different way (not to mention trading off Richmond, your franchise mega-star for him). Peja didn't come over for a few years. BJax was really sub-par in Minny and Denver. A LOT went his way - and a lot of it was very risky. Then again, I think you need risky GM's to be good but he took a lot of pretty big chances that almost all turned out well.

I agree.