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Thread: ESPN Daily Dime 12-27-2012

  1. #21
    Super Moderator nuraman00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloatedmaniac View Post
    I think the Kings could of easily topped the Rockets offer for Harden. The Kings pick have more value than either the protected Raptors pick or the Rockets own. They could of thrown in Evans, who I think they would of liked more than Martin at the time as he would of been perceived as a better fit. Even use Jimmer as a sweetener. The picks though would of made the difference. Then the Kings would of had a young bonafide player to build around.
    I don't know if it's "easily" better, since the Rockets might like a proven player like Martin more over Evans and Fredette. And Martin has fit in well. And they might not care about draft picks as much, since they don't have much time to develop players, hence why they got Martin.

    Lamb is also only playing 4 mpg for them. I could see Martin resigning with them, as he's probably happy with the team and his role, and he costs less than what Harden wanted.

    Lamb hasn't proven he's ready to take over for Martin.

    So if they preferred a veteran, and didn't feel they would have had time to develop a draft pick from the Kings (because it's not like they've been able to develop Lamb or Perry Jones either, and Maynor, another young player, is having his worst year.)

    But I do think Evans + Fredette + a mildly protected pick (say top 3) is in the ballpark of what OKC might have wanted, and I hope Petrie at least offered that.

    The Toronto pick from Houston actually seems good for OKC. Here are the conditions, from real gm:

    2013 first round draft pick from Toronto
    Toronto's own 2013 1st round pick to Oklahoma City via Houston (Top-3 Protected and 15-30 Protected in the 2013 Draft, top-2 protected and 15-30 protected in 2014, top-2 protected and 15-30 protected in 2015, top-1 Protected and 15-30 protected in 2016, top-1 protected and 15-30 Protected in 2017 and unprotected in the 2018 Draft. [Houston-Toronto, 7/11/2012 and then Houston-Oklahoma City, 10/27/2012]
    So because it's only top 3 and 15-30 protected in 2013, adn top 2 and 15-30 protected in 2014, that's about as good as what the Kings pick would have been anyways.

    So OKC could get a 4th-14th pick from this year's draft from Toronto.






  2. #22
    Forum Master bloatedmaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuraman00 View Post
    I don't know if it's "easily" better, since the Rockets might like a proven player like Martin more over Evans and Fredette. And Martin has fit in well. And they might not care about draft picks as much, since they don't have much time to develop players, hence why they got Martin.

    Lamb is also only playing 4 mpg for them. I could see Martin resigning with them, as he's probably happy with the team and his role, and he costs less than what Harden wanted.

    Lamb hasn't proven he's ready to take over for Martin.

    So if they preferred a veteran, and didn't feel they would have had time to develop a draft pick from the Kings (because it's not like they've been able to develop Lamb or Perry Jones either, and Maynor, another young player, is having his worst year.)

    But I do think Evans + Fredette + a mildly protected pick (say top 3) is in the ballpark of what OKC might have wanted, and I hope Petrie at least offered that.

    The Toronto pick from Houston actually seems good for OKC. Here are the conditions, from real gm:



    So because it's only top 3 and 15-30 protected in 2013, adn top 2 and 15-30 protected in 2014, that's about as good as what the Kings pick would have been anyways.

    So OKC could get a 4th-14th pick from this year's draft from Toronto.
    OKC has built around the draft and sought picks in the Harden deal to help build around. They won't go deep into luxury tax so they wanted to get draft choices as a key cog in the deal to offset losses down the road. Getting Lamb and picks meant more to the team than Martin. Martin was going to be a 1 year deal to ease the lost in the here and now of Harden. He though has worked probably better than they could of imagined.

    You are right, the deal they got was solid. The Kings might not of been a big difference but might of been enough. The Kings typically draft at a lower point than the Raptors. Going into the season you can say the Kings were going to be worse yet again than the Raptors. So a couple Kings picks could of looked sexy. Evans could of been a lesser Harden...can play some defense, can handle the ball, can score he just lack the shooting of Harden. Jimmer could of brought a cheap shooter off the bench, and OKC had interest in him this offseason due to that.

    So yeah the deal wasn't that much better, but still a very tempting offer that the Thunder could of easily decided to bite on. Unfortunately, the Kings aren't aggressive in seeking out deals of that sort. Those are the deals I'd like to see the Kings go after. Harden didn't care where he went, he just wanted the opportunity and the contract with his best days ahead of him.






  3. #23
    Super Moderator nuraman00's Avatar
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    Yeah, I hope the Kings offered that at least.

    I think the Thunder need to resign Martin though. Who's going to score off the bench for them if he leaves?

    Their draft picks like Lamb and Perry Jones aren't ready.

    Maynor, Thabeet, can't do it.

    They would have a terrible offensive bench if they didn't resign Martin. A cheap player like Kyle Korver wouldn't be good enough.

    I think they traded for Martin, with the probability that they could also resign him for less than Harden wanted. Martin isn't going to ask for what Harden was. He's going to ask for less, and that will be enough to keep them deep out of the luxury tax.

    Martin makes $12.4M this year. I could see a 3 year deal, $9M each year.

    Works out for everyone.













  4. #24
    Forum Master OZfan's Avatar
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    Last nights game against Boston. No Brooks, no Evans, very little Thorton and the team played great team ball. Cousins with 10 assist. Makes me wonder where the problem is.






  5. #25
    Forum Master kingraider412's Avatar
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    a good win, but take into consideration, this is not a young Boston team. 2 of the big three are on the wrong side of 30. The team is a slow and plodding half court team now. Not the Celtics you saw 2-3 years ago. Now they're out of gas.70 percent of the roster is young developmental players and the also play in the eastern conference. Where sub .500 teams make the playoffs every year. Boston is exactly that. Nice win,but quality wins against the best are games that suggest improvement by the Kings. Not a blowout against a mediocre team like Boston.






  6. #26
    Forum Master kingraider412's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, big baby and Perkins are gone as well. This Boston team has no Frontcourt.






  7. #27
    Forum Master bloatedmaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingraider412 View Post
    a good win, but take into consideration, this is not a young Boston team. 2 of the big three are on the wrong side of 30. The team is a slow and plodding half court team now. Not the Celtics you saw 2-3 years ago. Now they're out of gas.70 percent of the roster is young developmental players and the also play in the eastern conference. Where sub .500 teams make the playoffs every year. Boston is exactly that. Nice win,but quality wins against the best are games that suggest improvement by the Kings. Not a blowout against a mediocre team like Boston.
    I agree with all this. They are still a playoff team, but they don't have the legs to play well for an entire season. In last nights game you saw Garnett and Pierce on the bench a lot. You wouldn't of seen that 4 years before when they were a true contender. They depend on Rondo to carry the team now.

    The sad part is the Kings still can't beat Boston on a consistant basis. Replay this game 10 times, and the Kings probably lose 6 or 7 of those games. Winning a game here and there doesn't matter...even if its against the Heat. The Heat have lost to some horrible teams...it means nothing as its just one game during a long season. Anything can happen. When the Kings can beat ANY team with consistency...then it'll start mattering to us.






  8. #28
    Super Moderator nuraman00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloatedmaniac View Post
    I agree with all this. They are still a playoff team, but they don't have the legs to play well for an entire season. In last nights game you saw Garnett and Pierce on the bench a lot. You wouldn't of seen that 4 years before when they were a true contender. They depend on Rondo to carry the team now.

    The sad part is the Kings still can't beat Boston on a consistant basis. Replay this game 10 times, and the Kings probably lose 6 or 7 of those games. Winning a game here and there doesn't matter...even if its against the Heat. The Heat have lost to some horrible teams...it means nothing as its just one game during a long season. Anything can happen. When the Kings can beat ANY team with consistency...then it'll start mattering to us.
    I agree with all of this.

    That's why I said, even dating back to last year, that I don't get excited if the Kings get their obligatory one win out of 4 against the Lakers.

    Also, Rondo had 2 points and 1 steal last night. If this were a playoffs game, he would have gone for a triple double. Boston can't handle the regular season anymore. But in the playoffs, Rondo would have turned it on.

    Plus, you know when the game's in Boston, the Kings will have 15 assists and 19 turnovers.













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