Wizards fire Saunders.
I hope the Kings do the smart thing and hire Saunders. He's a pretty good offensive Xs and O's coach. Better than Smart. The Wizards were bad because their players are just mistake-prone and not improving, kind of like the Kings. But if the Kings hire Saunders, at some point it will pay off.
I'm guessing they'll be in on him at season end if he comes cheaply.
Which he wont. lol
I think Smart is doing a good job.
And after going through that hellhole, not sure trying to teach DeMarcus and especially Tyreke is something Flip would like to do for a while.
Yeah, I don't think that Flip and Tyreke would see eye to eye...
The Kings have gone from -10.4 margin of defeat under Westphal, to -13.1 under Smart.
The offense doesn't look any better, although Smart said its because he can't run like he wants to. He said the players get tired after 6 minutes. He's expects a running team to be able to keep it up for 15 minutes at least.
Their wins are by 3 or 4 points. They have no easy wins. There are 4 teams with a margin of defeat of -9.9 or worse: Sacramento, Detroit, Charlotte, Washington.
Similar to the 2008-2009 season, there haven't been any 20 point wins. That season had one, their road win @ NY on March 20th. I look at how many 20 point wins a team has, because even the worst team has one a year. And what a 20 point win signifies is that a team had an easy win. It means a team played at least 3 quarters of good basketball, more or less, and the rest might have been "recycle time". Other than the Lakers game, this team, in its wins, plays about 15-18 minutes of good basketball.
It only has one game where it has kept a lead for the game's first 24 minutes (San Antonio).
As for being wary of bringing any more hellhole, bring it on. I want more. This team doesn't look to be more polished than last year. Thornton has regressed. Cousins is better on offense but worse on defense. Evans isn't playing as well as he did as a rookie (but he's close). They need to learn how to play smarter, and they don't look like they're learning.
Is Tyreke even someone the team should build with? That remains to be seen.
Get a coach that can get this team to play with less mistakes, or to not make more mistakes than they did last year. If Evans can't adjust, he's probably not worth building with. He's Tyreke Evans, not a a superstar. Not an All-Star. He's just a decent player in the league at this point, nothing more. He shouldn't have as much clout as a young Jason Kidd did, for example. Evans isn't playing good enough to put his potential clashing with a coach over keeping peace with Smart but not having him improve.
Saunders is the kind of coach you would give a 3 year contract to. Smart is the kind of coach organizations don't know if they want to give 2 years to.
They were 4th in rebound rate last year, they are 29th this year.
This team was 27th in assist rate last year, they are far below 29th place this year. Although being the worst shooting team does cost a few assists.
This team has gotten worse in a few ways, under both Westphal and Smart, that I don't see why a veteran coach with a proven offensive system wouldn't be welcomed.
I don't think ownership would hire a new coach, but I think they should.
The guards on this team, Evans, Thornton, Fredette, and Thomas, need to learn how to run an offense and play basketball.
Evans and Thornton haven't been playing well enough where they should be sheltered from ways to improve themselves. If it creates conflict, I don't care, it's not like this team would be going anywhere this season. They aren't going to finish 10th in the conference. Or 20th in the league. This is just like another 2008-2009 as is.
Yeah the Kings playing better under Smart is just on the surface because of squeaking out a couple wins. The team looks the same and features a lot of issues. I don't see Smart as a good teacher, and we have lots of players that NEED to learn. He is giving the usual excuses now, but after another 20 blowout losses, they will lose their luster.
Anyhow, the Kings will definately keep Smart until the season's end. Sadly I just don't see the Maloofs willing to pay any coach a real contract. They short ended Adelman for years, and gave low base contracts to all the coaches that came after. Since they are even more broke then before, I don't see why that would change.
As for Tyreke...I just don't see him ever being a #1 player. He is a nice compliment to a true #1, but I'm not even sold at what position he should play. A point guard that only attempts to run the offense every other week doesn't fill me with confidence.
Originally Posted by bloatedmaniac
Even with a bad team like the Raptors or Pistons, I don't get the sense that their players need as much teaching as the Kings players. They just lack certain talent. With the Kings, they need a lot of teaching, at every position, but especially the guards. The bigs are a little ahead at playing their position.
NO NO NO NO NO. keep him away from the team.
Don't think Flip or anybody else does anything with this roster, as is.
Until Tyreke (which very well may never happen) turns the corner, this team isn't going any place. He either has to become something more than he is or the Kings need to move on.
Cousins is the only piece that is pretty much untouchable.
The architect of this building did a pretty sub-par job, IMO. Lots of individual talent, but, it's like trying to cram in puzzle pieces that just don't fit.
Right, I just think he's a better option going forward in the next three years than the current coach, if the GM makes some changes.
Originally Posted by Eze
I remember you weren't big on Saunders during his previous hires either, the last 5-6 years. Why?
Originally Posted by BosnianBaller_
Thinking that might be the start - changing GM's.
Originally Posted by nuraman00
I'm not going to say Petrie sucks, BUT, he's trying to make a dollar out of three dimes and two nickles.
He's not the risk taker he once was (in trades and FA). He's playing with limited money. It's just a bad combo all around. Of course a GM change wont happen till the owners change or until Petrie's had enough.
I personally don't think there's many good GMs in the league. Usually about 6. I use all three tools to evaluate GMs (draft, trades, free agency), and most fail in at least one area.
Originally Posted by Eze
Not saying I'm happy with what Petrie's done, but I think getting someone different will usually just lead to different mistakes. A new GM may bring some initial enthusiasm, with his or her talk about how there's going to be changes. But most will make some bad decisions within a few months.
Did you have any FA GM's in mind? Or perhaps an assistant GM that you think sounds promising, based on his quotes in the past?
I don't mind the occasional bad decision, they happen. You just can't make them when they're financially destructing.
And like you, I don't think there are a ton of good GM's out there either - probably a solid amount of younger front office guys who'd do a solid job (say like a Sam Presti did when he moved up through the Spurs and eventually to the Thunder), but much like owners, they seem to treat the GM's like a boys club - fresh blood isn't something they seem to encourage.
I don't think all the blame goes on Geoff, like I said you can't really make a dollar out of a couple dimes and nickles, but he's struck out quite a bit in recent years. For all the bitching we all do about coaching and stupid players, he is the one that put them together. He's the one who decided it was Evans over Rubio - the one who decided the team needed more ISO players when they already had more than enough - the one who brought in Nocioni, an unhealthy Abdur-Rahim, etc.
Moves that while he had financial handcuffs on, most saw with nothing but groans and moans before they were made.
Well, all I can say is following both the Wizards and Kings this year is painful. If you add the two teams together, you might have a playoff team.
PG: Wall, Crawford
SG: Evans, Thorton
SF: Vesely, Singleton
PF: Cousins, Hayes
C: McGee, Thompson
Last edited by DCKingsFan; 01-25-2012 at 11:42 AM.
Reason: additional thoughts
Maybe they should swap Evans and Wall. lol
I know you liked Rubio. But wait until his 3rd year or so when he has some responsibility. I'm not as impressed with his ability to run a team yet. They are sheltering him. Ridnour is the one that initiates most of the offense. Ridnour is the one that inbounds the ball out of timeouts. Ridnour is the one that breaks down the defense first.
Originally Posted by Eze
For example, in the Clippers game last Friday, Ridnour was the one that broke down the defense, passed it to Derrick Williams, who then passed it to Rubio for the game-tying 3. Then, for the game-winning play, Ridnour was the one that faked a pass to a cutting Derrick Williams, then passed it to Love for the game-winning 3-pointer. Rubio and Ellington had set the double-screen that freed up Williams, and then Love.
Rubio gets his assists on fast breaks, but I don't see much in his ability to run a halfcourt offense yet.
Wait until he has some responsibility to run a team on every possession.
I do think they're doing the right thing, having Ridnour play with him, for now. But just saying that Ridnour still runs the team. It's not like Chris Paul and Chauncey Billups, where either one can break down the defense. Right now, its mostly Ridnour in halfcourt sets.
Rondo was thrust into a significant role his 2nd year.
Let's see what Rubio looks like when he has to run an offense full time.
I know he has gaudy assist stats and steal stats. He definitely is a NBA player. But I'm still undecided on his ability to run a halfcourt offense.
Before he was drafted, my comparison of him was a Brevin Knight type player. So far, that seems similar, in that they are good on the fast break, but don't do enough in the halfcourt.
Carlos Arroyo was another player I thought was good on fast breaks, but not as good in the halfcourt.
I'm not impressed with Evans after three years. lol
I'd drive Evans to Minnesota for Rubio.
I think the lack of the right players on this team is a part of that. Whether you have Evans, Rubio, or Lawson, you still need the right mix for the team to look decent.
Originally Posted by Eze
No doubt that Evans isn't stacking up to what Rose or Westbrook did in their 3rd years, or Tony Parker (who also entered the league at 19).
I think both individually Evans isn't playing well, but even if Deron Williams were on the team, they would be about as bad because they have a lot of other things they don't do well.
And I think on offense, halfcourt offense is a big problem, and as of what I've seen from Rubio right now, I don't think that would be fixed. Also the Kings wouldn't be good enough on fast breaks for Rubio's skills to be shown. This team is not good in the paint on offense. Nor can they shoot as well as Minnesota. This would just be another Nets team (but with Cousins), pieces that don't fit or aren't good enough. What I mean is I'm more concerned about the overall makeup than I am replacing any one position. Because I think this team would still be the "Nets" or "Kings" with just about any player substitution on it.
I mean that's why Steve Nash with Phoenix, or Deron with New Jersey's teams are the way they are. Better PG, (and Phoenix has a better frontcourt, with Gortat playing better than Cousins), but its still a bad team.
Thornton, Thomas, and Fredette are probably the only good fastbreak players, and neither is above average in that area. (I'm excluding Evans because we're assuming a different PG would be playing.)
I know Smart wants to run, but this team doesn't have those type of finishers, nor shooters. Nor can they score in the halfcourt either. It's just a lacking team.
Minnesota has a better team, and before preseason even started, I thought they'd be at least the 10th seed, and their outlook this season has only improved. I thought they'd finish much better than the Kings, they had better young talent and players who make less mistakes. And Derrick Williams hasn't made his mark yet.
The Kings don't have comparable players to Minnesota. They have less talent. Love is better than Cousins. Ridnour is better than Thornton. They don't have a player with the defensive qualities that Milicic has.
Comparing them to rosters around the league, they fall short in a lot of areas.
Rubio on the Kings would be about as effective as Thomas is (but with better defense). A few nice plays, but not a big enough impact to change the other 60 possessions in the game where the Kings make mistakes at both ends of the floor.